Live Chat: Women And Negotiation – Busting the Stereotypes, Dissecting the Statistics And Fixing The Problem
Join Leadership Editor Kathleen Davis, Victoria Pynchon, cofounder of She Negotiates, and Carol Frohlinger, cofounder of Negotiating Women, Inc., on Wednesday, January 21 at 11 a.m. ET for a discussion about the pay gap, negotiation, and how everyone can finally get what they want.
Few people actually like negotiation, but statistics, studies, and anecdotal evidence show that women not only negotiate less frequently than men, but they often end up with less.
We’ll take a critical eye to the stereotypes, break down how both men and women can change their approach to the situation, and figure out how we can change the future.
Two experts on women and negotiation will participate in the conversation.
Victoria Pynchon is the cofounder of She Negotiates. A lawyer with more than 25 years of experience who has written two books on dispute resolution, she’s focused on closing the gender wage gap and is a negotiation consultant, trainer, and speaker.
Carol Frohlinger is the cofounder of Negotiating Women, Inc., a negotiation expert and former sales executive, commercial banker, and practicing attorney. She has written two books on women and negotiation and is a frequent speaker on the topic.
Join the discussion with us on Wednesday, January 21 at 11 a.m. ET.
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Victoria Pychon is the cofounder of She Negotiates. She is a lawyer with over 25 years of experience who has written two books on dispute resolution The Grownups' ABCs of Conflict Resolution, Second Edition and Success as a Mediator for Dummies., she’s focused on closing the gender wage gap, and is a negotiation consultant, trainer and speaker. Follow her on Twitter at @VickiePynchon
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Carol Frohlinger is the cofounder of Negotiation Women, Inc. www.negotiatingwomen.com a negotiation expert and former sales executive, commercial banker and practicing attorney. She has written two books on women and negotiation: Her Place At The Table, and Nice Girls Just Don't Get It. She was selected by then Senator Hillary Clinton to lecture on the issue of pay equity for women and to serve on a panel with the Senator to address the causes and implications of the gender gap in pay. Follow her on Twitter at @carolfrohlinger. Her advice was quoted in our recent story about women and negotiation.
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Before we get into the nitty gritty of women and negotiation, let’s address biggest problem first: The Gender Wage Gap. Most of us have probably heard the widely quoted statistic that women make on average 78% of what their male counterparts make. There are a lot of factors to this disparity. Can both of you help us understand some of why this discrepancy exists?
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I was delighted that the President mentioned the gender wage gap last night. It is an important issue, not only for women but for men too.
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There's some controversy about the wage gap - whether women "choose" low paying fields for instance. This discussion is mis-directed. Women don't "choose" low paying fields. Professions and occupations in which women are the majority BECOME low paying. This happened with PR in the '70s.
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The Surprising Gender Wage Gap In PR
Fast CompanyWe ask the question, why aren't women in public relations earning more money?
We recently wrote about the wage gap in PR. -
The statistic also compares comparable jobs with comparable requirements for employment, i.e., a high school diploma for the primarily women Target and Wal-mart cashiers as opposed to the guys on the loading dock who make more money than the women.
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How do you explain that women get paid less compared to men at the same job and responsibilities?
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Women and women's work is under-valued. This is an historic relic of a time when it was legal and common to pay women less because . . . well . . . sexism but also the structure of the family (white family) in the '50s and '60s allowed most employers to assume that most women were just making "pin money" - a second income.
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Here's more info about the gender wage gap:
The Simple Truth about the Gender Pay Gap (Fall 2014)
AAUW: Empowering Women Since 1881You’ve probably heard that men are paid more than women are paid over their lifetimes. But what does that mean? The Simple Truth about the Gender Pay Gap explains the pay gap in the United States, how it affects women of all ages, races, and education levels, and what you can do to close it. Read more » -
There is the issue about companies not being willing to pay because they don't have to - there's no equal pay requirement.
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The highest paid public employee in every state of the union is a football coach. Does that explain the disparity?
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Yes, and CEO's are paid very highly as well but not many women are CEO's!
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Implicit bias in subjective reviews has been repeatedly found to decrease women's pay. Solution: demand objective metrics.
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Yes, women tend to be hyper-scrutinized; their performance is judged more harshly.
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To discover your own implicit biases (we all have them) go to Harvard's Project Implicit and take the test there; millions have taken it.
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Why is negotiation important? For both genders and for women in particular?
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You don't get what you don't ask for - you have to negotiate, male or female. But it is more challenging for women because they get more pushback.
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The statistics - around for a decade now - show that women who don't negotiate their first salary stand to lose something around a million dollars over the course of their careers by failing to negotiate
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Research shows that both men and women don't expect women to negotiate - so when they do, they get resistance.
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It's hard enough to find "balance" (i.e., time to do what you HAVE to do) particularly when your children are young or teens. Making more money frees you from domestic chores so you can have the one thing men have that women lack (other than a penis) -> TIME
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When you learn your male colleagues are making more than you, it creates a grinding sense of injustice that decreases work performance and makes you unhappy.
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Ask The Experts: Should I Tell My Boss I Know My Coworker Makes More?
Fast CompanyShould you use your knowledge of your coworker's higher salary in your own negotiations for a raise? -
The pushback is the reason that many women sometimes don't ask - they are aware that to do so may cause them to be "less likeable".
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If men couldn't have both a career and a family at the same time, this "balance" problem would have been solved a LONG LONG time ago.
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So what should you do if you find out your male coworker is making more?
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My advice is to keep that to yourself but to then plan a stragegy about what to do about it.
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You have to do your homework, first. Why are you worth more? -
Oprah found out her male colleague was making more way back in the early '80s. She went to her producer and said she wanted to be paid the same. The producer said, "well, he has a family, do you have a family?" "No." "Then why should you be paid the same?" "Because I'm doing the same job." BE BOLD. Don't be defensive and don't be angry. Just ask for what you're entitled to, have data to back it up and lead with your benefit to the organization (diminishes "gender blow back"
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The only good thing about learning your colleague makes more is that you know that the company can pay that number...
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The barriers are not just external. They're internal too. When women and men are both asked to count dots on a screen (a meaningless task) until they feel entitled to the pay for doing it, women work 10% faster and 22% longer than the men.
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Remember, the negotiation doesn't really start until someone says "no." Don't let "no" deter you. Let it make you curious about why your bargaining partner said "no." "What's behind that?"
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Let’s talk about some of the particular hurdles that women have to overcome in negotiation at work, we've talked a little bit about how women are perceived when that speak up at work
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Often, we don't realize that we have power we do - we can't sell ourselves short.
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If managers or executives see a pay gap they should be envisioning lawsuits. Closing the wage gap is just sensible risk management.
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Managers should also make sure that women are heard at meetings, are evaluated fairly, and are not asked to do invisible work.
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If men in positions of power asked themselves, "should I make my workplace comfortable for ME and my buddies or comfortable for my employees" they'd see that they need to take action to close the pay gap to make their business more productive.
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Invisible work is the work that makes the wheels on the bus go round and round but are not valued when it comes to raises, bonuses and promotions.
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OBJECTIVE METRICS are key, absolutely necessary, to make decisions that promote the right people at the right time.
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Oh my...invisible work. Finally a name to describe it. Thank you. I thought I was crazy.
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And if your company is considered is meritocracy, be afraid, be very afraid. Research shows that those companies are less fair to women and other minorities because they sit on their laurels - we don't have a problem here!
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An objective metric can be measured, i.e., how much your team increased sales or decreased costs last year, participation in activities that further the bottom line profitability of the organization. Most employees have no idea how decisions are made. When they're made based on "leadership capacity" or "collegiality" or "promise," implicit bias slips in.
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Women do the emotional work in every organization. Legal secretaries have called their work an "emotional sweat shop."
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If you are doing too much of this, figure out a way to negotiate your way out of it - maybe offer to "advise" someone else, perhaps a man, about how to take that task over...
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We only have a few minutes left and this is such a big topic, what are some parting words of wisdom? Where do we go from here?
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There is so much! Negotiation is THE critical career skill, in MHO. Feel free to visit www.negotiatingwomen.com, Resources page for more information.
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Big topic. A lot to talk about. The core of interest-based negotiation is learning what your bargaining partner needs, what constraints they're operating under, what hidden interests their serving and what other people they have to answer to. So every negotiation is unique. The skills of an interest-based negotiator (strategy and tactics) are like tools. Like, "should I use a hammer on this or a power drill?" We can't answer that for you. We can just provide you with the tools and let you use your institutional knowledge and discretion to get it as right as negotiated resolutions can be. We have tons of free helpful materials at shenegotiates.com
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Also, the good news is that negotiaiton is a learnable skill. If you focus on it, you can enhance your ability to negotiate successfully. -
You don't get it if you don't ask for it. You can't be it if you can see it. Form alliances, seek help. HIRE A CONSULTANT. Carol is a dynamite coach and consultant. What you pay her will be peanuts compared to the reward (this is called "sponsorship" ladies).